Originally Posted by
Keep Britain White
For reasons that will be obvious, I have not referred to blacks as niggers in the emails below. I respectfully ask the moderators not to change this, because I would like everyone to see exactly how I communicated my views to this liberal guy. While I certainly call a nigger a nigger, it was best not to in these emails, or the conversation would never have got going the way it did.
But notice - particularly toward the end - how no real answers are offered by the guy. Liberals are best defeated simply by facts they can't answer.
I am a member of a web group concerned with spaceflight. A racial issue was mentioned, so I added a post, which was subsequently removed, and the moderator sent me this email to explain:
(I have used my real name but changed his)
Colin,
Your most recent reply to "Active NASA astronauts voicing opinions” was removed.
"There are two sides to a story…"
This is a fallacy that is often cited to support views that are racist or scientifically wrong or any matter of other factually wrong perspectives. There are no two sides if humanity walked on the moon, just as there are no two sides that racism is still prevalent in all aspects of American society today, if not throughout the world.
Case in point, "NASA will be accused of racism in some form until everyone in the agency is black.”
No one is calling for NASA to be all black, but such a suggestion makes it seem like calls for equality at NASA and elsewhere are invalid, which is false, no two sides about it.
Albert
Albert,
I'm sure neither of us wish to get into a long discussion about race, but the fact that anyone even hinting that there may be another opinion from the mainstream is censored, is just proving my point.
I used to be as liberal as they come. Then I learned some true facts about racial differences. The evidence is all around us.
There are indeed two sides, one of which is the modern blind "let's just believe all races are equal" - when they are clearly not.
A simple example: whenever blacks take over an area that was previously predominantly white.... Do you even need me to complete that sentence?
I am thoroughly fed up with the liberal-controlled media telling white people we have something to be ashamed of. We do not!
Look at what the white man has created. And look at what the black man has created. How anyone can argue the case for equality with a straight face is beyond me.
I know this conversation is pointless, as the liberals have brainwashed half of the western population. But they haven't brainwashed the other half.
I truly fear for the western world in the coming ten years, because when true debate is closed off, people take to other means.
I am starting to switch off the mainstream media, thoroughly fed up with their propaganda. I hope the rest of you see it for what it is before it's too late.
I know this is not a subject for ******** generally, but sometimes one can't avoid a crossover.
Colin.
Colin,
I am disappointed to read your response. I can only suggest that you take the time to read more and talk to more people of color about their experience. Your view of the world is biased, and doesn’t reflect reality.
You are judging others based on an unequal playing field, created by centuries of systematic racism.
You bemoan “liberals,” but what you are really denying are facts. If your answer is to turn away from reading well-researched, well-documented journalism, then you are making the choice to turn away from facts. Your email comes very close to using the same arguments that people use to deny we ever went to the moon. Facts be damned, I don’t like the truth, so I will take comfort in anecdotes and limited world views.
I don’t write this to insult, and I would never assume to know who are you are. But going by your reply only, I can only say you are working off a set of assumptions which are factually incorrect.
Albert
Albert,
I appreciate your response, and I know you are sincere in your statements. But when you talk about turning away from facts, that is precisely the argument I would use against the media.
I'm sure you don't want this conversation to run on and on; I will merely point out that you look at the cities in America that are run by blacks and liberals. If the U.S. continues on this course, you will cease to be the superpower you are. The crime figures, the number of people on welfare etc.; the drain on U.S. resources is incalculable.
I have always been an enormous fan of the United States, and believe me I wish only good fortune for your nation.
But I fear liberalism will bring about your downfall. And that I would hate to see.
Colin.
Colin,
I’ve lived in many of the cities you are describing — New York City, Jersey City, Arlington (Virginia) — and have family that have lived in others (Chicago) and what you are ascribing to “liberals and Blacks” is a common trope repeated by non “mainstream” media. It is not based on facts.*
The truth is, the troubles experienced in these cities and across the United States are a result of much larger, systematic issues that have go back decades, if not centuries. It is not about who lives there or who is in charge today.
You use “liberal” as if it is some new-fangled movement and it is not. This isn’t a question of being a Democrat or a Republican, but one of accepting the reality as shaped by centuries of history or wearing rose-colored glasses when viewing our recent past.
Suffice to say, your understanding of racism in America from afar is unfortunately very much misinformed.
Albert
Albert,
We shall have to agree to disagree on this. Your version of the truth is very different from mine. If blacks ever gain true power in the States, your future will be as bright as white farmers in South Africa (another news story ignored by the liberal media).
But one more point. I see you have again removed my last post. Can I explain that I didn't post it there to be annoying or provocative. But by cutting down the quote I had repeated in my earlier post, you made it appear that I was criticising NASA. You can see from the response I received.
I was not criticising NASA at all. I have no idea (nor, frankly, do I much care) what their current policy is on racial matters. I presume they are made to follow the politically correct line like every other public body is. I simply meant that everyone is nowadays expected to follow a line of thought that many disagree with. That's all.
And censoring comments is what the political left always do. They are very tolerant - unless you disagree with them.
Anyway, I still wish you all the best.
Colin.
Colin,
The quote feature is meant to reference past posts, providing a reference point; not reprint their entire content.
I don’t see how adding “...despite nearly every astronaut class since 1978 having female and minority candidates and of course a black administrator,” clarifies your reply further.
I think the issue is that you were trying to*inject comments about racism outside of NASA, or the media’s coverage of such, when that is off-topic to the thread. Since you weren’t referring to coverage of NASA issues on TV, I think the best solution is to remove your post, as now done.
The edits and deletions from the thread have only been to keep the discussion on topic (astronauts expressing their opinions). If you read through it as it stands now, there is disagreement and, when on topic, no one’s voice has been censored, regardless of their viewpoint.
I may personally disagree with some points made on the forum, but I respect others’ desires to express their opinions and so long as they remain on topic and do not post anything overtly racist (another problem for this particular thread), the comments have remained.
Albert
Albert,
I see you have removed my post completely, thereby demonstrating a perfect example of liberal censorship of which I spoke earlier.
No amount of censorship will alter the fact that the white people (and orientals) have created this miraculous technological world in which we live today. Blacks had nothing to do with it. Just 500 years ago, they hadn't even invented the wheel! Perhaps it is you who should do more research, and not just by reading those who have their black agenda to push.
I needn't say any more; your censorship has said it for me. It's not a problem.
Anyway, all the best.
Colin.
Colin,
Did you not read my last reply? I wrote that I was removing your post because you clarified that it was off-topic and the best way to resolve your concerns of being misunderstood was to remove it. *What you see on TV about issues not related to NASA is not related to the topic at hand.
Albert
Albert,
OK, I'll accept what you say about the post. Although it is very obvious that liberals get very jumpy when any opposition to their views on racial matters appear.
You say " What you see on TV about issues not related to NASA is not related to the topic at hand." Well, it is in the sense that (and this is what I was suggesting) NASA has to be politically correct like every other public body. That's all I meant; I didn't intend for the discussion to open up about race relations generally.
You say people like me should educate themselves more on the subject. Would you tell me, what are these "black accomplishments" that we hear about? What accomplishments? What have they contributed to the progress of mankind? I'm serious, I'd like to know your answer.
I fully accept that this issue has no place on ********, except in the context that it was raised by others. But when you make a comment like that about me "educating myself" about black history, perhaps you'd like to be the one who enlightens me.
I'm not being sarcastic; please inform me of the benefits that the west has got from intermingling with blacks.
One more thought occurs to me. An American such as yourself has grown up in a mixed society; you know nothing different. I'm 65. I remember with great fondness the 1960s, and I have seen my country (Great Britain) decline steadily since immigrants began flooding in, particularly from the 1990s onward. These people are not content to be part of our society; they want to bring their culture here, and change my country into the sh**hole they left. They'll find they have a lot of opposition to overcome - me being one of them!
I fear you will realise the truth when it's too late, but I wish you well in the struggle that is coming in the next few years.
We will continue to differ on this, but no hard feelings, I trust. Freedom means free speech, doesn't it?
Colin.
Colin,
Your question is a bit of a red herring. Unless you’re a scholar or enthusiast whose chosen area of expertise is the history of inventions, I am fairly certain you can only name a handful of inventors by name.
Plus, your question assumes that you have to have been a personality to make a difference. I needn’t tell you that it took 400,000 people to send humans to the moon and, as the public now knows, there were groups of African Americans who played a role in that regard. Their contributions are no less important than the Canadians who staffed mission control or the Brit who came up with the design for fuel cells.
The same is true for just about every major advancement of the 20th century, from airplanes to computers, to the internet and medicine.
You earlier mentioned the wheel. Well, no one knows who it was who invented the wheel, but most scholars believe it originated in Mesopotamia. Society then didn’t draw a distinction between skin colors, but we know that part of the population were Black Sumerians. So there is just as much a chance that a black person invented the wheel as a white person.
And let’s not forget where civilization began on Earth — everyone, at least to some small degree, is Black.
At the end of the day, though, we’re all human. The same species, same biology, same evolution. There is absolutely nothing that separates you biologically from the immigrants you bemoan or the Black people you discourage. You are them, as they say.
What does differ is opportunity. If a city is facing troubles today, it isn’t because of the color of the skin of the people who live there; it is because of the circumstances that led them to living there or the challenges that they stood in the way of their success. In the United States, this is particularly a program given how our country was built on the backs, blood and tears of slaves. It is a travesty for which we have yet to fully atone, and one that cannot be solved in just a few generations.
Yes, there is a racism at NASA. There is anti-semitism, homophobia and bigotry of all types at NASA, too. You don’t see it because you’re not meant to see it. It doesn’t originate from the top, but from within. And it because people turn a blind eye to it does it go on.*
So don’t decry the media shining a light on the wrongs of society. There is a reason they are doing so, because if you believe racism is not a problem, well, then you are part of the problem, too.
Albert
Albert,
I was hoping we were just going to agree to differ, but the points you raise cannot be allowed to slip by without response.
QUOTE: Your question is a bit of a red herring. Unless you’re a scholar or enthusiast whose chosen area of expertise is the history of inventions, I am fairly certain you can only name a handful of inventors by name.
It isn't a red herring at all; I'm just asking for some examples. Your answer is a carefully-worded response that avoids having to give a clear answer to my question.
QUOTE: I needn’t tell you that it took 400,000 people to send humans to the moon and, as the public now knows, there were groups of African Americans who played a role in that regard.
Of course, when the media learned this, they played it for all that it's worth. Count the number of black people involved in the programme, then count the number of white people involved in the programme.
QUOTE: The same is true for just about every major advancement of the 20th century, from airplanes to computers, to the internet and medicine.
Almost certainly the same answer as above.
QUOTE: So there is just as much a chance that a black person invented the wheel as a white person.
ABSOLUTELY FALSE. When the white man first encountered the blacks in Africa, they soon realised that these people had not only failed to invent a wheel, they had never tilled a single crop, they never used animals for farming (there was no farming), they had never constructed any kind of two-storey building etc. etc. One could go on and on. They most definitely did not invent the wheel!
QUOTE: And let’s not forget where civilization began on Earth — everyone, at least to some small degree, is Black.
ABSOLUTELY WRONG. And proponents of this theory (and that's all it is) should ask themselves, if it is correct that we evolved from the black man, then why has the white man so surpassed the black man in IQ levels since then?
QUOTE: At the end of the day, though, we’re all human. The same species, same biology, same evolution. There is absolutely nothing that separates you biologically from the immigrants you bemoan or the Black people you discourage. You are them, as they say.
For reasons stated above, ABSOLUTELY WRONG.
QUOTE: What does differ is opportunity. If a city is facing troubles today, it isn’t because of the color of the skin of the people who live there; it is because of the circumstances that led them to living there or the challenges that they stood in the way of their success. In the United States, this is particularly a program given how our country was built on the backs, blood and tears of slaves. It is a travesty for which we have yet to fully atone, and one that cannot be solved in just a few generations.
What about the difficulties and challenges the original pioneers faced? Your response is just the usual left-wing drivel that is poured out from the media. In other words, it's once again Whitey's fault that blacks live as they do. And how do you atone for the wrongs of the past by giving handouts to people who never experienced slavery, and who are almost certainly living a better life today (because their ancestors were slaves brought to the U.S.) than they would be doing otherwise in Africa?
Let me give you a couple of examples to think about....
If what you say is true, then why do blacks always turn every area they inhabit into a crime-ridden area, full of gangs, drugs, pimps, prostitutes etc.? That has nothing to do with the white race.
And let me give you an example from Europe. In 1945 Germany was on its knees, it was a country in ruins. Within 10-15 years they had rebuilt themselves into one of the major industrial powers again.
Today, many black nations in Africa sit atop some of the richest resources on this planet, and yet they are among the poorest people on earth. How is that Whitey holding them back?
QUOTE: Yes, there is a racism at NASA. There is anti-semitism, homophobia and bigotry of all types at NASA, too. You don’t see it because you’re not meant to see it. It doesn’t originate from the top, but from within. And it because people turn a blind eye to it does it go on.*
I can only repeat what I said in my post on ********; they will call NASA racist until the day everyone there is black.
QUOTE: So don’t decry the media shining a light on the wrongs of society. There is a reason they are doing so, because if you believe racism is not a problem, well, then you are part of the problem, too.
The reason the media is creating this fake view of the western world is because they hate us, and are attacking us from within. If you can't see that, then you will have to face the consequences in the years ahead, if there really are that many sharing your view - although I don't believe there are.
I can't help but notice that your email is full of what I would call left-wing propaganda, that cannot be backed up by facts. The media today - under this left-wing control - even tells us now that people can change their sex if they're unhappy the way they were born. Boo-hoo! That is where liberalism leads - to a society where if you believe it, it's real. Utter nonsense!
I have attempted to answer every single point you raise. You may not agree, of course, but I at least have a view that can be presented as an argument.
What about giving me some answers? I ask again, give me examples of how our societies are enriched by allowing blacks all the benefits of our western way of life. It seems to me, the more we give them the more they despise us. I would suggest that they always will, because they know how intellectually superior we are, and it must be difficult to live under those circumstances without the anger boiling to the surface - like every few minutes!
Africans belong in Africa. They won't find prejudice there; of course, they won't find a cushy lifestyle either!
Sorry this is running on and on, but if you want to keep raising questions, I'm happy to answer them. As I said before, I used to be a liberal like you - you wouldn't have found a more liberal guy than me! But I have learned from life, and I know which side of the civil war I'll be fighting on. Unfortunately I can see no alternative solution.
Lincoln had the right idea, but some of his history has been airbrushed out, as it doesn't fit with political correctness. If he had lived longer, America might not have had to endure a further 155 years of this problem.
Colin.
END OF EMAIL DISCUSSION. NO FURTHER RESPONSES FROM “ALBERT”.
You, my fellow Chimpouters, will notice how – when the questions came about naming benefits of multiculturalism – the conversation ceased! These are the questions we must keep putting to the media – because they have no proper answers!
If you’re still reading – thank you for your indulgence. But I hope this exchange shines a light on how niggerlovers respond when they're pushed for answers rather than left-wing cliches.
